Log In
Forum
Topic RSS
7:56 pm
September 2, 2014
Offline
For a period of time back in the day when I had bridging problems but still a very well developed head voice, I experimented with singing a few Led Zeppelin songs, some of which conveniently jump over the passaggio range wise. People seemed to like the way I approached the last chorus to Stairway to Heaven for example. Never sang it seriously but I'd do it on a whim in a casual setting and I'd get a compliment or two.
I've since changed my approach to be able to sing way more songs, but now I'm wondering, if I wanted to do a Zeppelin cover and study what Robert Plant actually did, there are a few Zeppelin songs that really do jump right over the break (Stairway, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You), would it work to just sing those with more a two-voice approach (M1 on the lower parts M2 up top)? Is it basically a screamy head voice (ala Brian Johnson) he does when he sings in that A4-E5 range, or does it have to be M1 and fully "connected to the chest" to really nail that sound and be convincing?
It's interesting because other songs like Whole Lotta Love and Ramble On, they LIVE between the E4 and B4 suggesting he's just staying in M1. But maybe he's mixing?
I'm still left wondering what his approach is and I just thought I'd get some feedback from more knowledgable singers!
My original music:
https://soundcloud.com/owen-korzec
https://www.facebook.com/owenkorzec
All kinds of stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/user/owenkorzec
8:19 pm
September 4, 2014
Offline
Cool to see a "how did they do that?" vocal topic!! 
Anyways, to me its sounded like in the early days, he used more of a chest heavy belting sound. Even on the highest notes like the countless G5s he still knew how to "pull chest resonance" up into his head voice and end up with a really consistant sound all the way to an A5-Bb5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....hwSEVbBZl4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....YAtbROFfqU
The G5s/G#5 glissandos are out of this world! Almost like a power drill. It came so easily for him back then. Ken Tamplin said that he used a lot of mask back then to help shed the weight as he went further up his range. If you look at his live clips, you can see he's smiling into the sound, letting it resonate in his nasal cavity as hes doing his big belting sounds. The formative years of live Led Zeppelin 1968-1970 Robert Plant sang his ass off at every show, hitting most of the notes in songs heard in the studio versions and oftentimes more. However, around late 1970, Robert got a bit fatigued in the voice for the last half of the North American tour, which is to be expected. He came back stronger than ever and did some stellar 1971 shows plus the second half of the amazing 1971 BBC sessions which anyone should pick up if they want to hear early live (Zeppelin/Plant at his peak) at their best. Unfortunately due to his lifestyle of many rockstars from the era, he blew out much of his voice around late 1972-73 from a combination of lack of rest, drugs, sickness, and lack of sustainable technique. He does have some of his range recovered nowadays, but hes just not quite as powerful as he was when he was younger.
8:19 pm
September 4, 2014
Offline
8:21 pm
September 8, 2014
Offline
Most of the big metal/rocksingers did both. in some causes plant belted extremly High in some cases very strong m2.
Thats the Hallmark of strong rock/metalsingers can belt extremly high but also scary connection to the headvoice
8:28 pm
September 4, 2014
Offline
Robert definately had a more M2 centric sound around 1972-1973. You can hear how he sort of thins out the sound even further here and makes it brighter. I think he had to change his higher range approach multiple times throughout the tours for almost every song. It sounds like he used even more twang/mask mid-late 1972 maybe because it was easier for him to reach the notes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....kNeD4Sv798
This was live June 1972 in LA I believe, awesome live version but you can hear the difference between the approach here and then listen to the studio version. Way brighter and slightly more nasally and clean than the studio takes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....QTaHw941iY
This is probably my favorite live version of this song. Same scenario here.
9:00 am
September 3, 2014
Offline
As Jens said, both...
While he did use a lot of things in falsetto that are a kind of a hallmark of his style, if you try doing the same on a song like Rock n Roll, it will just not work.
Anyways if the idea is training to achieve a similar result, the route would be the same, just directing more efforts towards that kind of quality. You can not skip the "M1 head voice" part because in fact most of the work you do there is improving your coordination and eliminating tensions that are unnecessary.
Felipe Carvalho
Singer and Voice Teacher in Brasil - São Paulo
5:50 am
September 2, 2014
Offline
Owen,
I used to sing Stairway to heaven too and the way i did it was very similar : full head on high parts. While the C and E 5 would sound ok, my voice would lose its qualities on A4s. As your voice is lower than mine, your head voice might be strong enough not to sound too whimpy, but you could just go for a light mix instead, with weigth shedding on the high Cs, or full head on the high Cs and high Es.
My advice is still not to go full head until at least B4 for this kind of singing.
I also used to sing Rock and Roll and what Felipe says is true. This light approach doesn't work well. I have lately sung this song in a light mix but if i had to do it now, i would opt out for something chestier.
This thread reflects well the skills and versatility of Robert Plant who could blend very different singing styles depending on the songs or even throughout his career on the same songs.
7:28 pm
August 19, 2014
Offline
Recently I was working with a singer on Dazed and Confused:
you simply cannot get away with this with anything other than fullvoice if you want the sound he has on the album like I posted here. You don't go to falsetto if you want a full, chesty sound.
Straight up belting/mixed voice whatever you want to call it.
it is a connected sound. as you go higher the voice thins out and you can control how heavy or thin you want to keep it up top whilst still being connected to your full voice.
@PhilMoufarrege
Online Vocal Coach, Singer/Songwriter
Grow-The-Voice.com | PHILMOUFARREGE.com
6:05 am
August 17, 2014
Offline
Owen,
As Felipe and Phil have mentioned, the way you want to THINK about approaching this is treating it as though you're going to stay in M1 the whole time, and just learning to control that. Trying to think M1 for one song (or even part of a song), then M2 for the next, then back to M1 for the next one after that, etc. is a fast way to make you very inconsistent when singing live. The voice likes for you to choose more or less one way to sing in a live scenario and stick with that. When you start going back and forth between approaches, you will begin to have one approach bleed into the other when you don't want it to! You will also find it hard to get out of a particular "mode". Just learn to do it all with your full chest connection.
5:42 pm
September 2, 2014
Offline
Marnell, I wonder if that "do it all in full voice" mentality is a restriction to versatility though. For instance Jeff Buckley uses a lot of both M1 and M2 and manages it all very well. Ultimately I would love to develop that kind of vocal versatility if at all possible. That's kind of off topic though. The general message I'm getting here is Plant is not shifting to M2 below C5 which is kind of what I was wondering.
My original music:
https://soundcloud.com/owen-korzec
https://www.facebook.com/owenkorzec
All kinds of stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/user/owenkorzec
5:23 pm
September 5, 2014
Offline
Excuse my ignorance here but what is M1 and M2? And what methodology do those terms come from?
5:34 pm
September 8, 2014
Offline
M1 and M2 is used by vocalscientists to describe vibratorymechanisms. M1 is what most people call chestvoice m2 is what most people refer to as headvoice/falsetto.
5:42 pm
September 5, 2014
Offline
7:23 pm
August 19, 2014
Offline
I hear ya Adam. I've never been a fan of re-labelling Chest voice and headvoice to highway numbers...
As for versatility Owen. You cannot get more versatility than a properly developed full voice. Because then all the comments from people saying "one voice, no bridges" finally starts to click. Rather than switching "modes" you just change intensity/weight. If I want to be in pure headvoice by G4 I will just pull off heaps of weight and intensity to the sound.
And just to clarify, when Dante says staying in chest he means that the resonances are still mixing (mixed voice).
@PhilMoufarrege
Online Vocal Coach, Singer/Songwriter
Grow-The-Voice.com | PHILMOUFARREGE.com
8:42 pm
September 3, 2014
Offline
Yes and chest and head DO NOT equal M1 and M2.
Actually the whole problem is that we should not be so worried about the mechanical register, but instead resonance and intensity and just keep using your voice normally. But headvoice=flip/falsetto is the first idea that will come to the student because, on the begining, that's pretty much all that we can do (if you can, I couldn't even do that lol).
Felipe Carvalho
Singer and Voice Teacher in Brasil - São Paulo
11:12 pm
August 17, 2014
Offline
Owen,
It's exactly what Phil and Felipe are saying. You basically learn to use your full voice and then learn how to color the voice differently from THAT position. When you color the voice from a full voice set up, you will still keep your support in place instead of singing for 2 or more different places. Think of M2 as being more of a vocal effect that you just use occasionally from time to time, not something you base your entire technique off of (unless you're only ever looking to sing Bee Gee's material).
Most Users Ever Online: 607
Currently Online:
11 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
OwenKorzec: 283
TommyTheHat: 186
quentin: 138
Adam Mishan: 84
wabba_treads420: 72
Sexy Beast: 60
daniel formica: 59
IAm: 48
Slow Start: 34
Mivke: 31
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 0
Members: 223
Moderators: 0
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 6
Topics: 331
Posts: 1860
Newest Members:
steviedee, Mitch, carol, fabriciofreitag, owow, alex 5, SusiKette, Student Teacher, Michael, StevenSAdministrators: Marnell Sample: 45, Phil Moufarrege: 264, Felipe Carvalho: 117
