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1:02 pm
September 2, 2014
Offlinehttps://app.box.com/s/wfeyicw8aog0y5nd6z3v
[I have sent another recording to Phil yesterday showing a different approach so if you are interested, i can also send it on request]
If anyone wants to listen to something that has challenged for monthes me and is still challenging me, click on the link above.
I can't describe how hard the song is but how ass kicking it will be when i will get full control over it. It combines joy of being and the power of hard rock. You don't hear a lot of people singing as great as Ronnie James Dio on this tune.
The way i sing that song kind of evolves with my voice. I started with falsetto, and then, a light mix. Now, i am at some kind of dilema where i can belt almost everything up to C5, but with a splatty quality or i can chose to sing in mixed voice (but i am not fully satisfied with the result). I find belting quite intense and unreliable in a live situation where i would have to sing everything in a one shot. On the other hand, I have not full control over my mixed voice. I cannot sing very in the C5 - E5 area and then decreshendo while bringing back chestiness to the sound. You can hear it several times in the sound.
Another thing i can try is to full-belt the song, but then i am afraid it will sound too shouty and restricted in terms of interpretation. Let me know what you think!
11:16 pm
September 2, 2014
OfflineThe intensity sounds good dude, just be careful with getting lazy on vowel changes, on the phrases at 00:30 and 00:56 all the vowels sounded exactly the same and I couldn't hear the lyrics at all. Sounds like you are modifying correctly, but you're changing everything fully to the modified vowel rather than still singing the pure vowel with that modified color and throat shaping behind it. Work on getting the vowels a bit more pure at those sections.
Also, is this seriously Dio? I thought he did, like, hard rock stuff? This song sounds like it's straight out of the Beatles catalog haha!!! Surprising.
Phil has told me in the past something along the lines of "a neutral mix is the best way to use the voice because you have cord closure and support etc. but JUST ENOUGH" so with that in mind I'd say go for the mixed voice (sounds like that's what you did here). But practice belting it too so you have the option.
I think the most important thing is to start the song in mixed voice. If you start it belting you might get tired quickly and it will be hell by the end. If you start in a mix, you may stay there the whole time if that feels right. Or you may decide partway through that you'd be more comfortable shifting to just belting it out, but then whatever remaining portion you end up belting, it won't be so long that you get fatigued and crap out.
But once you start belting it will be hard to go back to mixed voice so you want to avoid it as much as you can.
This all being said, don't you find the difference between mixing and belting is so subtle anyways? In that regard, you might want to just figure that all out as you warm up, but when you go to perform or record the song, just sing with emotion and let your voice choose the intensity for you. I'm not sure if that's easier said than done, you're at a more advanced stage than me, but I just know that everything I've performed I don't think too hard about belting vs. mixing. Maybe just because I always belt hahaha but I think more than that, you have to let your vocal intuition (rather than a preconceived mental plan) make some decisions for you depending on whatever condition it is in that day - that is what will keep it reliable in times where you have an on the fence decision...you kinda just have to feel it out and not try to make your voice do something it doesn't want to. Same goes with stuff like evading a high melody because you just intuitively feel in your voice you won't be able to nail it today. It's good to be aware of things like that and able to adapt on the fly.
My original music:
https://soundcloud.com/owen-korzec
https://www.facebook.com/owenkorzec
All kinds of stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/user/owenkorzec
5:05 am
September 2, 2014
OfflineOwen,
Yes, i tend to overdo the modifications, but lately, i have worked with Phil to bring more real estate to the words. But i definitely have to practise it more on these kind of phrases, which is tricky because it sits very high and there are a lot of words to spell.
And yep, this is Dio
And the composer of the song is Deep Purple's bass player, Roger Glover.
It is not our generation, but in France our parents know this by heart (it used to be featured on a channel)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyMjIamDrKw
I used to sing the song while fully staying in the mix : https://app.box.com/s/wymbn3lyq70kcm1dlv47
It dates back from April, so my mix was still very light as you can hear.
But i want to depart from this approach to get closer to RJD who has a lot of power and intensity.
Also, my mixed voice starts to shine around C5 but in my opinion, if i do it before that, it sounds too heady for my taste.
Regarding my intuitions when i sing, i would say i usually hit the spot within the limits of what i can do with my voice. For instance, i will natutally switch from a belty to a mixed sound without thinking too much about it. The hardest parts for me is decreshendo. When i sing a high note in mixed voice, i am like "stuck in the mix" where i should bring back more chestiness when i decreshendo to keep the intensity going.
Depending on the mood of the day and my health, i also sometimes decide to sound very belty and loud. Whatever approach, i have been kind of traumatised by the feeling of having two different voices and in any situation, my intuition is always about singing consistently without this mental image.
What you said about belting is true. If you start to heavy, you will never be able to lighten up the sound in a live situation. One day, i was a bit too confident, and i attempted to sing Journey in front of friends with a very quick warmup (singing one or two songs before). I belted from beginning to end lol. While i could get away with it and not sounding flat, i think i totally messed the interpretation.
The difference between mixing and belting is subtle? Hmm i don't know, but unless i misconcieve these two terms, my mic can tell the difference. Even now that my mixed voice is on par with my belts around the high C in terms of volume, it definitely has a recognizable signature. When we do lessons with Phil, and i listen back, i can't tell a big different when i sing in mix or when i pull the chest, but strangely, when i sing with the condenser mic, it doesn't have the same flavor.
There is something that is a bit bothering me with my mixed voice, i can't tell yet if its because the wovel choices make it too dark or if its because its too heady...
10:02 am
September 2, 2014
OfflineIt's important to remember bringing more real estate to the vowels is different than the extent you modify. You could sing all the vowels pure and still be singing on the vowels. Not that you want that, but just to emphasize that what Phil is saying has more to do with the relation of the vowels and consonants, not how the vowels are sung.
for decrescendo I think you just have to plan ahead and support more than you think you need. Again you are more advanced that me, but Phil has taught me that is part of the technique for transitioning dynamics and with what little I have done with it so far it does help.
i don't mean the difference of belting and mixing is subtle in terms of you can't hear it. It's obvious to hear, but do you feel like they are not separate coordinations but kind of interconnected? I think that's the goal. I think of it all as just different dynamic shades of one full voice and that I can train to learn the shades in between. I'm not there yet but based on the feeling of my newly developing mix and more refined belting I have no doubt there are infinite shades in between available if they are trained. Maybe that's what you could go for, finding an in between.
Not sure what you don't like about your mixed voice, nothing stands out to me, you will have to just listen closely, maybe compare to your favorite singers, and try to figure out what the problem is on your own based on your own preferences.
Is your newer recording is what you consider belting? If so I would go with that. But if that's your mixed voice, you could take the opportunity to add even more intensity and learn to belt the whole song and it would strengthen your mixed voice approach.
My original music:
https://soundcloud.com/owen-korzec
https://www.facebook.com/owenkorzec
All kinds of stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/user/owenkorzec
2:22 pm
September 2, 2014
OfflineOwen, about bringing real estate, i agree it also has to do with the relation between wovels and consonants, but it also has to do with lowering the modification, at least for me. I needed firstly to modify to an extent that it would be only one wovel on certain phrases, and i worked with Phil to differenciate, but in the limits of my comfort zone. For instance, in Don't stop believing, i used to sing "took the midnight train ended anywhere", with no "ee" on the word "anywhere". You don't want to have that extreme, or the interpretation will miss important subtlety.
I may be more Advanced, but we definitely have issues of our own. You seem to be more cofortable than i am while mixing in your mid-upper range, while i i feel comfy around the high C. I just feel my mixed voice getting really powerful up there, and "ee" wovels are even easier than on my lower range.
I am trying hard to feel like these voices are shades of the same voice, and i think i have made some progress because at the beginning, when i discovered mixed voice, i felt like some kind of exotic thing with its own rules of physics so to speak. When i have slept a lot and my voice is in perfect shape, and when i warmed up enough, i can feel for a few minutes like my voice is totally connected and that i can decide how i will do this or that, by just modulating the same instrument. When i am a bit off, the feeling of a divided voice comes back.
My newer recording has belted elements, like the B4s or one of the C5 (on the "love is aaalll"), but for instance on the C5 of the verses, for me its mix. I would say this recording is halfway between belting and mixed voice.
6:05 pm
September 2, 2014
Offlineit's okay to overmodify at first if that's what you need to do to be comfortable. Just start working on going more pure on the vowels when you are ready. That is exactly what I've been doing with my song Glow.
My original music:
https://soundcloud.com/owen-korzec
https://www.facebook.com/owenkorzec
All kinds of stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/user/owenkorzec
9:23 pm
September 4, 2014
OfflineWow that was honestly so unexpected you would choose this one out of the more popular ones like "Rainbow in The Dark" or "Holy Diver" but in a really awesome way lol. Its cool to hear something new from his massive discography!
Butterfly's Ball and the Grasshoppers feast was first released in 1974-75 and was Deep Purple's bassist Roger Glover's earliest solo effort (I forget the date exactly but it was around then for sure). Lots of great cameos and performances in here, listen to the whole album on youtube, excellent catchy songs with really eclectic styles.
Here's one I am working on that is heard even less than "Love is all". Here's a moment where Dio's beautiful clean resonant tone shines. He sings in a really light mix here and has an almost feminine quality to his sound which is so different from his classic ballsy powerful tone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....abY4xb_Pjs
Wow... Actually he kind of sounds like Paul Mccartney here the more I listen to it.
6:02 am
September 2, 2014
OfflineThanks for sharing. Yes, we had a great discussion with a friend, whether who was the best between Dio and Mercury, and while we thought the latter could do more things with his voice (singing softly), Dio on this tune sounds very nice and light;and yet fully in control. His tone is quite close to Freddie btw!
1:37 pm
September 2, 2014
OfflineWabba that song and Dios singing on it is awesome.
I'm more of a fan of that than dios normal style actually.
My original music:
https://soundcloud.com/owen-korzec
https://www.facebook.com/owenkorzec
All kinds of stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/user/owenkorzec
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