Marnell Sample said
In regards to Ken not taking any risks vocally, I personally think some of the covers he did such as the Michael Jackson song, the Bruno Mars cover, and the Christina Aguilera cover are ALL risky choices because they're in a style that's not "home" for him. So I don't think you can say he doesn't take any risks. Plus, most professional artists are only going to choose to release songs and styles that show them at their best. It's logical that you would only want to choose something that's going to paint you in a good light. Likewise, it's the same thing most voice teachers (and business owners period) also do.

True, Ken sang some Bruno Mars and Michael Jackson - but listen and watch - he is singing them with his well developed, high chest, pulled sound - NOT the lighter, headier configurations that Bruno and Michael use(d). A one trick pony. This is why a very light vocal song from 'Journey' was handed off to a young male student. Successfully blending between lower resonance to upper resonance in a light phonation I think is hard for Ken - it's not what he trained to do. And on it's own that's cool, my problem is his arrogance in portraying himself as some saviour of voice training that can do anything. He has cultivated this image of himself that I can see right through. Many other people are starting to see through it as well and are contacting coaches like me, Robert, Jaime etc. instead of Ken. I am training 4 former students of Ken right now and they all tell the same story = "you don't get much for $300".

Ken, and others like him, can charge all they want - if there are people out there willing to pay that, I say "go for it", but I personally think it's fleecing the public, lazy teaching and pompous. NO teacher is worth the same per hour as a lawyer. None. I don't care who they are or who they've taught. Learning how to sing is not on equal footing with getting you off a bogus murder charge.

But I thank you Marnell for responding in a measured, rational and intelligent manner. You don't see that a lot on public forums.

Kevin Richards said my problem is his arrogance in portraying himself as some saviour of voice training that can do anything. He has cultivated this image of himself that I can see right through

I don't have that notion. You keep on repeating this, but it's just out of your mouth. Do you have any video clips or any texts you could quote just to back up what you're saying or do I just take your word for it as I'm not "in the closed circle of experts" or whatever?

I have the idea that Ken's laid back and not aggressive. The way he comes across is nowhere near how many other vocal coaches rant about their method. Just saying "sing better than everybody else" isn't that bad, it's just marketing. I haven't seen him take cheap shots at anyone personally, and even if you speak generally in saying "a professional vocal coach who has many 'how to sing like videos' where he pulls chest" is very directed and personal. To me, this is more of a cheap shot than saying "forget all the other programs such as speech level singing." Also, the way he portrays himself in his material is very open. It's not a piss take on other programs, I recall him saying in one of his introductory lessons along the lines that "--- is not what I do, but if it works for you then there's no reason to stop. I just ask that you give this technique a chance."

Marnell Sample said

@Kevin

I appreciate your compliments. Thank you. However, it seems that we have greatly diverged from the original topic of this thread; therefore, talk of unrelated matters should cease here.

I do think these are all related to the topic.

Hopefully this is still on topic or somehow helping to get us back on track:

As a student I would really just like for ALL teachers (and students) in this kind of worldwide online vocal training community to stop bashing particular teachers. It has come to a point where nearly every teacher on these forums is doing it, and perhaps not even realizing they are.

I am intending to say this completely objectively and not call anyone out in particular. From my view, almost everyone here, on TMV, and outside, is doing it to some degree, and I'd invite you all to be humble enough to check in with your behavior.

Almost all of you seem to think you are just exposing the truth of proper singing technique or fair vocal training business and yes you may be, but that doesn't make you look better to your students or benefit the community better than if you approach this proactively by leaving the drama behind and simply singing, teaching, and running your business better yourself.

I understand no one is perfect but IMHO as a student, nothing shows you truly care for your students more than the desire to leave the arguing and drama behind and get back to the singing and teaching.

Hopefully that post is clear and doesn't offend anyone. This is just how I see it as a student. Who cares about what so and so did - show us your best work as a singing teacher on all sides - good singing, good technique demonstrations, students with good progress, good technique explanation, good online image, fair pricing, fair business, good marketing, good personality, etc. etc. etc. and I will study with you if my goals as a singer are in line with what you teach and our chemistry clicks. You can't just fall short on any of these points and expect to get every student in the world by trying to pull them away from other teachers with a good verbal argument. It may work for some gullible folks, but the smart students will see right through it. Students are to be earned. Not stolen from others.

Now before all you coaches just go ahead and agree with this, I would like to refer you back to my third text block - just check up on your personal behavior and quality of work - ask yourself questions about what your weaknesses and strengths are and how you can improve. If you have been bashed, heck, study it reinterpret it into constructive critique. And then act upon it. No need to fight anyone, I'm confident you are all in control and can lead proactively toward a world of better singing. That is what I want to see as a student!

I totally agree Owen. I was just going to post something similar but you put it much better! As for offending someone, if that happens, good, let it be a wake-up call.

In the modern singing world there seems to be way too much division. In my opinion, we as students and/or teachers need to look at the big picture and realize that unhealthy, malicious circular reasoning debates jeopardize the learning process. I also like where Daniel was going with his comments that while we all have differences in methods, the objective for free beautiful singing remains the same.

Bob Chamberlin said

Phil Moufarrege said

Hi everyone. Dante and I have created this post, explaining why we will no longer be posting on Robert Lunte's TMV forum. This decision is based on the culmination of events that have been going on for many years now. Some of you are aware of it, some of you maybe not.
Please visit the following link to read the article:
http://philmoufarrege.com/robe.....lunte-tmv/

Why have you acted in such a lowly, immature manner as you have done and slander Robert Lunte online, that has been providing you with a free service for years? I don't think your behavior towards Robert Lunte was very bright or mature whatsoever. I do know for a fact, he is pursuing defamation charges against Marnel as we speak right now and there is an ethics Complaint being filed at NATS".

This is a total lack of professionalism, acting petty and going to all this trouble simply because Robert made the decision to delete your accounts because you were using the platform as a venue to publish your axe grinding. Look guys, any forum is not a place to post your complaints. The only reason you would do that is because you want to make a public spectacle of it and that is completely immature and tacky.

Furthermore, I happen to know for a fact that the TMV World Skype conference calls that you are referring to Dante in another post were actually paid for by Robert Lunte because he was being thoughtful and generous. The guy actually paid out of his own pocket to help you out and now you sponsor a Roast discussion, claim you're "definitely" going to have the Skype calls again. This is interesting how you fail to inform your new forum viewers who actually paid for that service.

All of this is apart from the fact that your little slander blog out at Phil's website is against the law. If I were you, Dante, I would remove your name from that immediately because I think there are some legal matters you are going to be dragged through quite possibly. It would be wise to disassociate yourself from Phil's childish blog or get the hammer from Robert Lunte's attorneys. This is not a bluff. This is serious.

Just keep going on with this and keep on acting like a couple of twits, engaging in a roast and slander against another coach... boo-hoo, because you had your accounts deleted after throwing a baby fit on the TMV World Forum. Jesus, why would anyone want to be a part of this slanderous forum? You guys are minor league twits for these immature and slanderous actions you have posted towards and against Robert Lunte." That is a very unwise move on your parts.

This looks like something Robert would write.

daniel formica said

Hey guys I would just like to say I know we all have differences here and there but remember we all met on tmv so it's important that we just discuss technique and not post about why we don't like this guy or that guy it's all just negative when there are so many positives about technique and singing to discuss..keep singing!!!!! Peace seriously peace

Daniel,

I agree with you. I have deleted my posts because i think they were mixed up with the wrong topic and could be dealt in a more appropriate way.