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Low larynx or not?
January 7, 2015
5:48 pm
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Lowbass
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Hi guys, my first post here.
Looks like a forum with good atmosphere and a lot of knowledge.
I hope you can help me with this,
Iv been trying to extend my range and have read and seen a lot of different info.
Some say "dont raise your larynx" and others "it raises on the way up" "keep it low" or "keep it neutral"
So to clearify, which shall i try to aim for?

January 7, 2015
8:07 pm
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OwenKorzec
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It has to raise slightly the higher and higher you sing.

However IME larynx height is not the right thing to focus on when extending range. The reason is whenever the larynx goes too high or low it's almost always a result of some other cause. Usually by excess tensions in any of the following areas: the jaw, neck, tongue root, chin, chest, solar plexus, clavicles - interfering with the natural movement of the larynx and either forcing it down or up. When you release these excess tensions and strengthen necessary tensions in the right areas (lower torso, intrinsic muscles of the larynx) and configure resonance effectively, that is what grows the high range.

January 7, 2015
8:40 pm
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Adam Mishan
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Well said Owen. That was really concise and clear.

January 8, 2015
12:26 am
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Phil Moufarrege
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Hi lowbass, welcome to the forum.
I made a video on this I think it will answer your question:

@PhilMoufarrege
Online Vocal Coach, Singer/Songwriter
Grow-The-Voice.com | PHILMOUFARREGE.com

January 8, 2015
3:19 am
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Lowbass
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Ok, thanks for your replys.
So when its way up high iv done something wrong, and its not the larynx itself, its the tension i create on the way up.
I can feel that im doing something wrong and its partly i guess because of incorrect support, but i guess its something else also.
A strange thing is i can do this "whoop" sound loud (staccato) without feeling strained, up to C5 but not a siren.
I have to change to falsetto already at G3 where my break is when doing sirens, which also was my highest note when iv started this Journey.

January 8, 2015
8:03 am
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Felipe Carvalho
Brazil
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Instead of thinking of lowering or elevating, just try to get out of its way :).

Felipe Carvalho
Singer and Voice Teacher in Brasil - São Paulo

January 8, 2015
8:56 am
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Lowbass
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Your right Felipe, but easier said than done :) at least for me at the moment.
Iv tryed yawn, raise soft palate, lightening mass but that last put me in falsetto.
There is parts missing, and maybe its a "heavy" bass from the beginning that makes it harder?

January 8, 2015
5:05 pm
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OwenKorzec
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Lowbass do you have any way to record yourself? If you post an audio file here we will be able to hear what is going on in your range and we will be able to help you a lot more.

January 8, 2015
8:15 pm
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Phil Moufarrege
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Lowbass said

Ok, thanks for your replys.
So when its way up high iv done something wrong, and its not the larynx itself, its the tension i create on the way up.
I can feel that im doing something wrong and its partly i guess because of incorrect support, but i guess its something else also.
A strange thing is i can do this "whoop" sound loud (staccato) without feeling strained, up to C5 but not a siren.
I have to change to falsetto already at G3 where my break is when doing sirens, which also was my highest note when iv started this Journey.

Hi lowbass, you will have to post a recording if you want detailed help with what your vocal issues are and how to fix them. Through text it will go back and forth forever LOL

@PhilMoufarrege
Online Vocal Coach, Singer/Songwriter
Grow-The-Voice.com | PHILMOUFARREGE.com

January 9, 2015
5:47 am
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Lowbass
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Yes your right. ill come back with a sample when i feel a bit more ready. im just practising higher notes, i dont use them in songs, yet.
This is so new for me, its kind of embarrising. when iv started i had no headvoice no falsetto and no belting. I guess im lacking in all areas, muscle, coordination, phonation, and support.etc. Its just 6 months ago when iv started to find falsetto, and if i dont practice in 3-4 days i almost loose it and its really hard to find it again.

January 11, 2015
2:27 am
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Lowbass
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BTW Phil, i didnt mention, thats a really good and informative video.
I dont have that "pulldown" sensation in the lower muscles, i usually have/had it on my vocal folds :( not always but i think iv used that to make an even heavier voice talking.
When im practising headvoice and falsetto, shall i avoid the lower chestvoice totally for some time?

January 11, 2015
2:49 am
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OwenKorzec
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Lowbass said

BTW Phil, i didnt mention, thats a really good and informative video.
I dont have that "pulldown" sensation in the lower muscles, i usually have/had it on my vocal folds :( not always but i think iv used that to make an even heavier voice talking.
When im practising headvoice and falsetto, shall i avoid the lower chestvoice totally for some time?

Nope, practice all of it. If you want you can devote an entire day to falsetto/head and an entire day to chest and alternate like that, that is fine and often very helpful. But I wouldn't recommend practicing only one or the other for weeks/months, otherwise your voice will start to favor that one coordination you are training, and the other one you are neglecting for weeks/months will get a lot worse.

Btw one way to combat what you're describing of a heavy weighted down voice is to just practice humming and lip bubbles on scales or slides up and down your current range in a relaxed medium volume. If you do that every day, especially earlier in the day, I think you'll find your speaking habits will improve naturally over time.

January 11, 2015
6:57 am
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Lowbass
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Ok, thanks Owen for your input!
I guess i can let my lowest chestvoice C3 and down rest and just use it in songs and practice from there and up.
(I never have any problems between C2-C3)
One problem is when im working in headvoice is if i twang to "much" when going higher i loose the coordination totally and it takes some time to gently go back and find it again. Shall i drop that or do i need the twang to reach higher?

January 11, 2015
9:24 am
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OwenKorzec
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You need twang to go higher but if anything gives you problems like that you could be overdoing it or doing it wrong

January 11, 2015
10:50 am
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Lowbass
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Bit by bit ill hopefully come closer. Iv done lip bubbles many times but never really felt any good from them until now.
The light coordination came much easier after doing them, thanks Owen!

January 11, 2015
9:35 pm
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Phil Moufarrege
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Lowbass said

BTW Phil, i didnt mention, thats a really good and informative video.
I dont have that "pulldown" sensation in the lower muscles, i usually have/had it on my vocal folds :( not always but i think iv used that to make an even heavier voice talking.
When im practising headvoice and falsetto, shall i avoid the lower chestvoice totally for some time?

Hi lowbass, I'm glad the video clarified some things for you.

Lowbass said
When im practising headvoice and falsetto, shall i avoid the lower chestvoice totally for some time?

It depends what your issue is, I still haven't heard your voice yet Cool
What you think your issue is may be something completely different. When I hear you, I can tell you exactly what you need to do.

@PhilMoufarrege
Online Vocal Coach, Singer/Songwriter
Grow-The-Voice.com | PHILMOUFARREGE.com

January 12, 2015
1:59 am
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Lowbass
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Ok Phil, thanks for the opportunity. I will come back to you soon. I hope you are prepared for a tough case! :)

January 12, 2015
7:08 pm
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Phil Moufarrege
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Lowbass said

Ok Phil, thanks for the opportunity. I will come back to you soon. I hope you are prepared for a tough case! :)

They are my favourite - especially helping the "tone deaf". Bring it on! Cool

@PhilMoufarrege
Online Vocal Coach, Singer/Songwriter
Grow-The-Voice.com | PHILMOUFARREGE.com

January 15, 2015
10:39 am
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Lowbass
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Phil, iv send you a mail but your mailbox is full, so it didnt go thru.

January 15, 2015
11:40 am
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Felipe Carvalho
Brazil
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Lowbass said

Your right Felipe, but easier said than done :) at least for me at the moment.
Iv tryed yawn, raise soft palate, lightening mass but that last put me in falsetto.
There is parts missing, and maybe its a "heavy" bass from the beginning that makes it harder?

Unlikely Lowbass. Its just as you said yourself: easier said than done. What I said was on the sense of not trying to interefere with it so directly, but finding out what is getting on the way and trying to remove it.

Yawning and raising the soft palate, making it lighter, those are solutions that are prescribed WAY more often than they work. And they do not solve anything, they just make you do certain things. If those are not the things YOU need, it will just cause confusion.

I would definitively hear what Phil has to say and give it shot :).

Felipe Carvalho
Singer and Voice Teacher in Brasil - São Paulo

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