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Full head voice before A4 : my thoughts about the potential and shortcomings of this way of singing
September 12, 2014
3:32 am
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Phil Moufarrege
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Just to clarify Owen's post about "not bridging". Owen can stay in full voice and shifts resonance correctly without flipping and can go all the way up. When he does it correctly he feels like he's just in his chest going all the way up with no break. This is what he means

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September 12, 2014
11:15 am
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quentin
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Martin H said

@wabba

I definitely second Felipe. Actually nothing is getting "mixed", which is also why this term is so illusive. The key point is adduction. The more adduction, the more "mixed" or "chestier" it will sound. And that goes for both M1 and M2. :)

Hello Martin,

But i am confused because to me it seems that abduction in M1 and M2 are really different things both accoustically and physiologically.

To increase "abduction" or "chestiness" while staying in M2, would be to create more resonance by narrowing the epiglotic funnel (to add more twang to say it in another way).
In M1 there are many different ways to sound louder, chestier, or fuller, because contrary to M2, you can change resonance AND vocal mass. The Tyro arythenoidian is active, contrary to M2 where it is fully inactive.

This is where i got confused with a TVS messa di vocce exercice because i would bring more resonance by squeezing the twanger, thus swelling M2 but never really blend registers (bring more ta activity gradually). This resonant head voice sounds louder and be almost as loud as full chest voice (at lease, in a non opera setting), but never bears the same accoustic quality than true register blending - as Owen mentionned in another post -.

When i do mesa di vocce exercice now, i swell the volume, but its a totally different sound and sensation. I don't feel like just adding resonance. I really feel like bringing chest musculature.

Maybe I don't understand the terms of M1 and M2 correctly, or i am tricked by my own sensation, but for me, the chest/head metphora kind of bears some good sense and explanatory power.

September 12, 2014
11:24 am
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Jens
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Quentin m2 can have full aduction and sound very chesty, also it's not true m2 Only gets adduction with twang it's pretty similar to m1 . :)

September 12, 2014
11:46 am
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Felipe Carvalho
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And it's not true that TA is innactive in M2. You can have TA more active than CT in M2, and CT more active than TA in M1. Even "chesty" productions where CT is more active still inside M1.

Oh and note that I am not telling anyone to stop using head, chest and mix. I use them, I learned using it and I teach using it. I love it, I am a head and chest dude :P.

Felipe Carvalho
Singer and Voice Teacher in Brasil - São Paulo

September 12, 2014
1:38 pm
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wabba_treads420
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Ok I think I'm sort of seeing where you guys are going with "mixed voice" now. It's more of a matter of what muscles you engage than something actually meshing together.

Super late edit: I apologize for any derailing of the thread, I just really wanted to hear your thoughts on the terms. Maybe this kind of discussion should take place in some other thread. I've never tried Rob's program, but it seems like a great tool for learning to sing nonetheless, and very well produced/put together.

September 20, 2014
1:12 pm
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Felipe Carvalho
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It did not derail wabba.

To clarify, it´s more a matter of the resonance used (the vowels), and the intensity.

As long as you focus on those aspects, the registration will be able to do "what it needs", I mentioned the muscles behaviour exactly because muscle contractions alone, the laryngeal coordination alone, is NOT the CAUSE for the different registers we perceive, although of course they need to adjust to sustain phonation.

Felipe Carvalho
Singer and Voice Teacher in Brasil - São Paulo

September 20, 2014
3:47 pm
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quentin
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Hello Guys,

I think i got a couple of things wrong about how M1 and M2 respectively work.

Felipe, i would really like to hear a sample of singers who are very capable in both registers, or even better, shots of the same songs sung well but by singers using a different registration. As you mentionned, above B4, you can use both registers without altering the quality of the interpretation, but what draws my interest is the fact that some singers will sometimes use M2 slightly beloww B4, or even in the first passagio.

The singers i know who do that are Ian Gillan, the early Geoff Tate, and Robert Lunte of course.
Here is a good example :

Ian Gillan in Highway Star : "its a killing machine, she got everything" at 0.47. Switching in M2 on the word "everything"

I have always wondered where counter ténors are in full M2 and even where they are in M1 at the first place. They have such a smooth passagio that they must have a very large area where they can sing in different rgistration without the audience noticing.

September 21, 2014
12:26 pm
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wabba_treads420
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Awesome examples Quentin!

Here's a lesser known song from Ian's solo band, bite the bullet. Random trivia time: A young Janick Gers is on guitar here!

This time he uses more of an chesty belty sound higher in his mid range. He seemed to belt like this later in the 70s and 80s even more than the Deep Purple years. Here's some awesome belted C5s like @ 2:44.

Here's another stellar live performance with some of his heaviest belting in the midrange. Those verses are just crazy good! This is from his early DP years.

September 21, 2014
2:08 pm
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quentin
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Ah, another Gillan fan! Wow, he is really strong on these clips, thx for sharing!
I am more used to hear his very twangy head voice, but he definitely knows how to belt. Actually, it makes sense that he sings heavier in live situations, but i am still very impressed by the sound he got there.

September 24, 2014
1:39 am
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daniel formica
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The thing is "Bridges" are real but not "bridging". The bridges are shifts in resonance that reoccur every 3-4 notes and repeat in octaves. This is real old knowledge i did not make this up and i'm not stating something that is a hypothesis. These are the facts when it comes to the voice and why some people have an easier time than others is because they naturally shift their resonance without having to be coached. in other words the acoustic space(mouth,throat) determines how the harmonics boost and which ones boost (pitch vowel intensity). when a harmonic is placed somewhere that it is naturally not supposed to be, the sound loses resonance and color and sounds dull and pressed or flat. Now I know others have spoke about formants and harmonics but its really understanding that helps not just knowing the numbers.

And in singing pop and rock nroll you are NOT going to want to shift at the natural places all the time you would lose FLAVORLaugh

September 24, 2014
12:31 pm
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Martin H
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In regards to "bridges", that's a matter of definition. To state that it's about changes in resonance is just one of other definitions.

September 24, 2014
4:25 pm
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daniel formica
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its a physiological thing that happens its unavoidable in searching for really good technique . you could call it jumping jacks or crosswalks or lily hammer. thats up to you but they are there. its up to the singer to feel when to slightly do something

September 24, 2014
5:13 pm
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Martin H
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@Daniel

Yes, resonances are definitely a part of singing (it's a given). But whether you want to link those changes in resonances to "bridges", well that's just a matter of definition.

For instance, you say that shifts in resonances reoccur every 3-4 notes. But, that is only depended on how you approach it. You can even change the resonance on the same note if you like!

September 24, 2014
5:19 pm
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daniel formica
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of course Im just speaking of keeping certain harmonics in line with the sound you are trying to achieve

September 24, 2014
5:26 pm
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Martin H
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@Daniel

But that is just a matter of personal preference in regards to "sound color" isn't it? I don't see how that refers to "fixed bridges" at a 3-4 note interval as you state?

September 24, 2014
5:30 pm
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daniel formica
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the fixed bridges are there maybe not on an exact note but right by each other.most singers don't even bother with the lower one usually just the main 'passagio". this is in my experience working with student and singers. if you listen close you can hear when there should have been a slight shift the resonance goes off slightly.

and yes personal preference. when i practice technique i try and follow my resonance its very hard and when i sing i forget about it and hope it stays in line. Laugh

September 24, 2014
5:38 pm
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Martin H
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@Daniel

Well, like I initially stated, it's a matter of definition. The resonance can go off "slightly" on the same note.

Anyways, my point is, be careful when stating absolutes like facts about "bridges". :)

September 24, 2014
5:40 pm
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daniel formica
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why would you want it off other than personal preference. Confused

i didn't make up the science behind it but there is a science behind it.

September 24, 2014
5:58 pm
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Martin H
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@Daniel

No you didn't make up the science. But I guess you "forgot" the other views or science in regards to "bridges", when stating what you did. :)

September 24, 2014
6:21 pm
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daniel formica
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nope i didn't i actually looked at the science and didn't nit pick on definition and losses in translationKiss

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